Men Talk: Thoughts & Experiences Too Raw to Admit
Hi I was born in Hengelo O. My aunts and uncles are this way also to different degrees I try to curb it but just comes out with well meaning advice and it fall flat sometimes. So true, Joop. I married a Dutch man and lived in Kampen for ten years. Rude, and offending were the order of the day. I was learning Duch, and not fluent, but could understand them. Now that we are living in California, they visit us all of the time.
Hate us? Not sure, but it was a reason we moved back to USA. Sorry to hear you moved back because of Dutch rudeness Barbara. In our defense I have to say though that Americans can really puzzle me and my friends. Americans seem all open and inviting, but the problem is they do not show their limits, they do not show what they do not like. As a result we as Dutch people can be totally surprised by a totally unexpected shocked or angry response from an American.
The limits of what one can discuss and especially joke about with Americans is a mystery to me, even after having worked alongside many for a long time now. They can be surprisingly prudish and old-fashioned, from a European point of view, but they often seem to think they are culturally superior. A certain openness from both sides seems necessary to avoid situations like yours, where you feel you have to leave because nobody understands or respects you.
I can assure you this was not the case. Most Dutch people will not visit you, even as a cheap holiday option, when they do not like you at all. Sensible comment. Cannot agree more. Well Joop, I agree with you.
I believe anyone can be honest and direct without being rude and mean. People from other countries will want to stay away. Presumptuousness, incidentally, is hardly unique to the Dutch! Frankly, both the Germans, even the English, can come awfully close in speaking the first thing that comes to their lips, regardless of the often hurtful, potentially psychically damaging, consequences:- lol.
If you are direct and it hurts a persons feelings and you know that then that is being rude. Telling the truth requires some degree of tact and diplomacy. Even if you are Dutch! Having a point of view on any and everything is a good Dutch trait. I totally agree. I would never say to someone your haircut is ugly even when I think it is maybe not all that flattering, even Dutch people would leave those things unsaid.
But when you give a speech e. You are the example of the American way. If something is great, you will also get a confirmation. All though some people are offended by it, it is a very efficient way of communication. It gets rid of frustration and stress. Some people assume that Dutch people are angry when they tell it like it is. In my experience, people from Brabant and especially Limburg are less direct and form closed communities.
And convenient economic milk cows to boot; for Amsterdam especially. Another dichotomy was religious: Brabant and Limburg, south of the grand rivers Maas, Waal and Rijn, being overwhelmingly Roman-Catholic — in contrast to the overwhelmingly protestant West. The very attitude is still reflected in many contributions in these pages and other sections of this blog.
Also worth considering is that, after the Armistice end of WW 1, in , the then Dutch government narrowly escaped punishment for allowing German army units to cross Limburg, on their way to what were to become the Flemish killing fields — in spite of neutrality solemnly declared, some four years earlier. Accordingly, the Dutch were ordered to hand over the province of Zuid-Limburg to Belgium.
A successful appeal ultimately called the whole thing off — if I remember correctly. Enough to irritate the living crap out of me. If the truth hurts, prepare for pain. If you speak your mind you will inevitable hurt someone.
Should this shut you up? In debates any thought should be expressed, not surpressed. Personally I prefer an honest opinion.
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Being hurt, or hurting someone, is not necessarily a bad thing. It might help you or the other to grow or take things less personal. Not ruddeness is the flipsight of this coin, but only listening to your own opinion, and inflexibility in thought. They look like long, skinny, unhealthy ghouls. Compared to other countries Dutch people do not smoke that much weed. I live in London. And I love being direct cos that means that I have got nothing to hide.
If you call directness speaking without thinking, then I agree that the Dutch are direct. If you call directness getting to the point and speaking your mind, then I have to disagree. Speaking about directness and rudeness. How easy it is to insult in text. Look in the mirror people and see how trustworthy you are. When you are direct, you want to get to the point, and if you have the ability to do so in a not completely rude and disrespectful way, you should definetly be proud of that. This utter conviction of the universality of their world views and the missionary zeal with which those are trumpeted all over the globe usually leaves little room for different ideas.
One internationally notorious example of the latter was a government minister called Jan Pronk. The Americans especially regarded him as the proverbial pain in the backside. And because of this level of fanaticism displayed, the Dutch government as a whole got a bad name.
men talk thoughts experiences too raw to admit Manual
This word is still in the dictionary, I believe. Not every Dutchman is a Pronk. You should look into the differences between what is objective and subjective. Like some other commenters said, there is a fine line between being direct and honest, and rude. I hate being rude, and I apologise when I am.
But I hate unspoken thoughts littering what could be a nice and open atmosphere. Taking one idiot Dutchman and basing your entire view of the Dutch people on him. Maybe you should think things over and calm down before you write such rubbish like you just did. I have a Dutch nurse. She thinks she knows the truth. I think she is a semi-literate jackass.
I have already sent a couple of complaints to the Editor of the Toronto Sun. I look forward to a dialogue, and the paper can put it on the front page. As for her employer, i shall be drafting documents, like a good retired University of Toronto lawyer should. I shall also read them out loud, preferably more than once.
This is a bigger project. Okay, but is her problem or.. John Harvard. To be honest: your story sound weird and I feel sorry for the nurse having to deal with you. I agree! I am Dutch myself, having lived and worked abroad a lot, I am always wondering where this proudness of being rude comes from. I have many expat friends, and they still make fun of my directness, eventhough I think I am not that bad.
They tell me they do think it is refreshing, but hey, they know how to sugarcoat their message; I think there is something to say for honesty, but I agree with many people above, sometimes it is better to leave things unspoken. You can still sugarcoat a message a little and I we think we do this most of the time too. If a friend wears new pants that makes her ass look fat, I will wisely shut my mouth.
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I would indeed tell her that I think that I have seen more flattering pants on her and that she should probably look for a model that covers up her love handles of something along that line. Furthermore, I think the perception of Dutch rudeness is strengthened by the language barrier. Most Dutch people do speak reasanably good English, but lack the finesse, which makes my fellow countryman sound even more rude than we really are..
In English, this is an absolute rude way to communicate.